Ron Reigns:
Welcome and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.
Speaker 2:
Do what’s best for your kid and for yourself because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid and that’s not fair.
Speaker 4:
I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.
Speaker 5:
Don’t have an abortion, give this child a chance.
Speaker 6:
All I could think about was needing to save my son.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m the executive director, president, and co-founder of Building Arizona Family’s Adoption Agency, the Donna K. Evans Foundation, and creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development and a master’s degree in education with an emphasis in school counseling. I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother. Raised in a closed adoption and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.
Ron Reigns:
I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the co-host of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife who’s an adoption attorney and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
All right, so today we are going to discuss updates in the adoption world and in the abortion world. We’re going to look at some of the latest news. I would like to start by prefacing upfront that some of the news on abortion comes in so quickly that as we are gathering information for our podcast, we may not have the most updated or most current news, especially due to COVID because we are having to prerecord at times. That being said, we are giving you the news as we are locating it.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
We’ll start off with the adoption news. US Weekly on MSN reported that Jessa Dugger and Ben Seewald are considering adoption for baby number four. Ben Seewald stated that we could wait until all of our kids are grown and gone and then adopt, but I also think it’s kind of cool to have an adopted child growing up with other kids. They stated this while they were promoting season 11 of Counting On. Stating they’re just in a stage of meeting with people who have adopted and getting advice and hearing their stories and seeing what it might look like for us. I think that it is always a positive thing when celebrities who are looked up to or revered or people that are relatable are adopting because it gives the general public a sense of connection and a sense of normalcy. Are those your thoughts as well?
Ron Reigns:
Absolutely. Now, okay, so I’m not initiated into the whole Dugger thing. Now they’re the 18 and Counting people, right?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
They are, yes. They’re part of a large family. Personally, I’ve watched the show since it started. There has been some controversy within the show. That being said, I think that there’s a lot of really fun stuff to watch as they go through and live their lives.
Ron Reigns:
Okay, so I’m assuming that this Jessa Dugger and Ben Seewald, her husband are some of the 19 kids? They’re obviously not the parents of the 18 and Counting, whatever how many ever they have, correct?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
18 Kids and Counting, yes.
Ron Reigns:
Okay, so they’re children of the group. Got it, okay. They already have three children. They have Spurgeon who’s four, Henry three, and Ivy who is 13 months. Their next could be an adopted child and that would be great. Again, bringing more light to adoption. I think that’s a great thing.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Another positive in the adoption world is according to the Seattle Times, Trump signs an order to strengthen the US child welfare system which is always very, very exciting for me because he signed an executive order aimed at strengthening the child welfare programs nationwide. It comes as child protection agencies across the United States struggle with effects related to the coronavirus pandemic. What they’re finding I think is that the numbers of people who are looking to foster are dropping and that being said, there was an executive vice president of the Children’s Aid, which is a private agency that provides foster care services in New York City, said that inquiries from prospective foster parents have dropped to around 10 a month during the pandemic compared to the normal average of 40 to 50. They really feel that the coronavirus is what is tampering and weighing into this.
Ron Reigns:
Hindering it, right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
There are so many children in the foster care system that I think that we as a society are needing to not turn a blind eye to these kids that are aging out of the system. What I have seen personally in the adoption world is we have birth mothers that have aged out of the system and within a year they’re knocking on our door because they’re pregnant and unable to support themselves and unable to parent a child. That is just the cycle repeating itself and it’s tragic. It’s absolutely tragic.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I had one birth mother that came and she just broke my heart. She was almost 19 and she said that when she turned 18, her state case worker took her to a local homeless shelter, handed her $50, and told her good luck. Again, in terms of the validity of the story, obviously, that’s not fact-checked yet. That’s just reported by the birth mother to me. Regardless, that was her interpretation of what happened.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That obviously gives a greater sense of abandonment and just being lost in this world and so she gravitated to somebody much, much older, and wound up getting pregnant and then found herself alone again and on the street. It was just, it’s tragic. I think that those families that have an interest and a heart to be a foster parent, we need you. We need you as a society, we need you in the adoption world, these kids need you and hats off to president Trump for making this order and really looking at this in the time of this pandemic. Is that your thought as well?
Ron Reigns:
Well, in looking at the executive order it has three basic areas of reform, which are creating robust partnerships between state agencies and public-private faith-based and community organizations. The goals would include the development of community-based abuse prevention and family support services in holding states accountable for recruiting an adequate number of foster and adoptive families.
Ron Reigns:
The second being improving resources provided to caregivers and those in care. The order says HHS will increase the availability of trauma-informed training. Support guardianship through funding and grants and enhanced support for kinship care and for the roughly 20,000 young people who age out of foster care each year.
Ron Reigns:
The third being improving federal oversight over key statutory child welfare requirements. Among other steps this proposal directs HHS to advise states in the possible use of federal funds to support high-quality legal representation for parents and children and saying that all, I think the only, I don’t know if you would call it even criticism, just wondering where’s the specificity? What exactly does of this entail? It sounds great, but as one person pointed out it’s kind of all fluff and we have to wait and see on this. What it’s going to mean for the system. Again, that’s kind of my takeaway. What do you think of that?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I agree with you. I think anytime you implement a policy from the higher-ups, you do have to wait and see. There’s always the wait-and-see approach of what it’s really going to look like. What it’s going to look like for the agencies and the perspective foster families and the children. I mean, ultimately this is about the children. Until you wait and see and it filters down and it becomes with some regularity and people are putting it in practice and so forth, you really don’t know what it’s going to look like. I think that was, in my opinion, one of the issues with the whole COVID 19 coronavirus pandemic was we didn’t know what it was going to look like. So orders are coming in from governors and the president and we’re trying to all follow them, but in practice until you’re in it, you don’t really know what your life is really going to look like.
Ron Reigns:
Right. Yeah, that’s a great comparison
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Moving on to abortion. There’s always lots and lots of news and happenings and law changes with abortion. Again, prefacing some of these news bits that we have looked into that they may very well have changed again, even since we pulled them recently. Iowa sued over a law requiring mothers to wait 24 hours before an abortion. The law also requires mothers to view an ultrasound of their baby and receive adoption information. This is reported from lifesitenews.com.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I think actually that law is phenomenal. I think preventing a pregnant woman from making a snap judgment, proceeding with an abortion and having her wait 24 hours, and having her look at her baby on the ultrasound, and giving her the option of adoption. What’s wrong with that? I don’t see any fault, why anybody would have a problem with that. We’ve always said on both sides, pro-life and pro-choice, we want women to understand what the options are. We don’t want her just to have one sole option. Even on the pro-life side. Obviously, we are looking at two rather than three of those options as viable choices, meaning parenting or placing your baby for adoption. If you are pro-choice, then you are looking at it as having three options rather than two. I’m not sure why this was upsetting to anybody.
Ron Reigns:
Well, of course, Planned Parenthood and the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Unions, have filed a lawsuit. We always hear from Planned Parenthood and the ACLU. They’re claiming of course an undue burden on patients. They’re saying that politicians are creating arbitrary barriers to safe legal abortions. They continue to say that all the time, every time. I agree with you a hundred percent. More information is always better. More light on a subject, on both sides or on all sides, is always better. Give people the information they need to make an informed decision and one that they won’t regret later on I hope.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. In 2018, the Iowa Supreme Court struck down a law similar to the new one. The law had required mothers to wait a full three days before getting an abortion. In 2020, the ACLU and Planned Parenthood had brought a lawsuit claiming the law was both unconstitutional and medically unnecessary. Again, it appears, and I’m not pointing the finger, but it really appears like Planned Parenthood is really trying to make abortion access very readily available. That it’s a front and center choice and in doing that, are we really promoting life at all? Are we saying, okay, we’re going to fight to make sure that you don’t have to wait 72 hours? We’re going to fight even harder to make sure you don’t have to wait 24 hours to terminate or kill your baby. I mean, that’s really where we are. I think that that’s just insanity.
Ron Reigns:
I think it’s ironic that it’s also coming from the same side that wants to require waiting periods for guns. Which I agree with, there should be a waiting period and a vetting process to purchasing a gun, but there also should be to killing a child.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right, absolutely. They said it is more likely for the courts to uphold the current Iowa law requiring mothers to wait 24 hours before any abortion. I hope and pray that they do uphold the law as it stands and disregard the lawsuit.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Tennessee’s governor, hats off to him, is going to do whatever it takes in the abortion fight. He is going to do whatever it takes in court. According to SFgate.com to defend one of the strictest abortion bands in the country currently blocked from being implemented. He’s stating that it is very important that we defend and protect the lives of every Tennessee and one portion of the most vulnerable being the unborn. That is why we want to make that decision to defend it. I think that if we as a society, a country, as a world took this approach, I mean we’re so protective of defending those that need protection, but yet the ones that don’t have a voice seem to get lost in the crossfire. It becomes more about rights and whose uterus it is and what business is going to be affected if they don’t have the right to continue abortions rather than fighting for the little ones that can’t yet speak for themselves.
Ron Reigns:
I couldn’t agree more. This is the first of several stories that we’ll be talking about that involves the heartbeat legislation, where after six weeks approximately when a heartbeat is detected, they are no longer allowed to have abortions in some of these states. I don’t see anything wrong with that whatsoever.
Speaker 4:
Right, absolutely. I think that one other thing to note is just after that fetal heartbeat law had gone through Planned Parenthood, the American Civil Liberties Union and The Center for Reproductive Rights filed a lawsuit challenge in the legality of that measure. Again, we’re seeing the continuity of Planned Parenthood just coming after anybody that is trying to delay, diminish, or eradicate the ability to have an abortion. I really appreciate that the governor has taken that stand and in Tennessee and hats off to him as well.
Ron Reigns:
Absolutely.
Speaker 4:
Kron.com in Georgia. A federal judge voids the heartbeat abortion restrictions finding that it violates the US Constitution. We talk about so many topics as a society on the news. I think a lot of the whole political attraction is standing on your platform and stating your case and it’s like going back to high school debating and college debating teams. I think sometimes we lose sight of what we’re really debating over and we just want to win. It becomes cutthroat. In a case like this, by making this declaration that these babies are not…
Ron Reigns:
Humans, people.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That they’re not worthy. That they’re not recognized. That they’re not human beings. You’re right. That they’re not people. Georgia’s measure sought to ban abortions once a detectable heartbeat was present with some limited exceptions. I cannot imagine why somebody would want to fight against that. I can’t fathom that whatsoever. I think that as we get closer to the election time, I think that abortion is going to be the source of a lot of these political debates again where obviously the left and the right side both really want to combat and fight for their cause, but are they really fighting for their cause? Are they fighting for themselves or their position or their stance?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I mean, if we’re really going to talk about abortion and we’re going to talk about babies, why not have in between the two podiums posters. Posters of babies and abortions. That’s what we’re talking about. Let’s make it real. Let’s bring it front and center. If we’re going to go there, let’s go there. Let’s really talk about it but they’re not going to want to do that because it’s too hard to look at. It’s too hard to see. The pictures aren’t pretty. It’s something that in my mind, in my beliefs, you can’t sweep under the rug. You need to look at the ultrasound and see your baby and you need when you’re up there arguing that women have that right to choose, you should be looking at what you’re really saying. I think we need to bring back to the debate the visual because I would really like to see somebody stand there and argue that it’s okay to perform an abortion on a baby looking at that baby.
Ron Reigns:
Did you, I’m sure you probably did, have you seen the clip of the doctor talking before Congress?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes.
Ron Reigns:
About the actual abortion process? I think we need to link that to our page.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Okay.
Ron Reigns:
Share that with the listeners out there because it is so powerful what this procedure involves and it’s heartbreaking. It’s not an actual image per se because it’s mostly him talking, but it is powerful. I agree, you need…
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Created quite a visual with his words. He does. I did make my older teenagers all sit down and watch it as well because I really want them to understand what this is and why this is something that I am going to fight till the day I die. To make sure that we can prevent as many abortions from happening as possible. Due to my own history and the fact that I may have very well been aborted had it been legal, I really feel like it is something that I’m like a pit bull with a piece of meat. I’m not going to let it go. I’m not. Even if it’s just one baby that is saved by listening to this podcast or somebody reconsiders going or just takes time and actually instead of just looking at that ultrasound, maybe she watches for a little bit and feels some kind of connection with her child.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Regardless of whether or not she decides to parent that child, I think that if we took funding away from abortions and we put it into helping mothers that want a parent and can’t due to strictly financial reasons, that would say a lot more about our society. This is coming from somebody who has been in the adoption world her whole life and in the professional adoption world for 16 years.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Time.com reported the federal judge has approved that women can get abortion pill without in-person doctor visits during the pandemic. In Silver Springs, Maryland a federal judge agreed Monday to suspend a rule that requires women during the COVID-19 pandemic to visit a hospital clinic or medical office to obtain an abortion pill.
Ron Reigns:
Now just to clarify, when we talk about an abortion pill this is not what has been known as the morning-after pill. This is a different pill entirely. This is literally an abortion pill.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That is correct. Actually, in many cases it’s not just one pill, it’s two. It is taken at a designated period of time. This ruling will allow healthcare providers to arrange for this drug Mifepristone. I’m going to try to guess of how to say that to be mailed or delivered to patients during the public health emergency declared by the secretary of the US Department of health and human services. The US Food and drug administration approved this drug to be used in combination with a second drug misoprostol to end early pregnancy or manage a miscarriage. This obviously will negate a woman having to see an ultrasound to know whether she’s even carrying one baby or two. It will not allow her to receive the counseling.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Again, I think that this is definitely not positive for women or obviously for their babies. It’s unfortunate that this was passed. I guess the only thing is we can hope this will be overturned as so many of the abortion rulings go back and forth.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
What we can all take away from this podcast is that you can only control so much and you can educate others by your words and your actions. As much as you want to be the one that’s going to change the world, maybe just focus on changing just one person or trying to show them what really matters in life and that human beings, no matter how small they are, matter just as much as anybody else. Their lives are no less important than anybody else. Adoption is a beautiful option. It’s not for everybody. That’s why in the adoption world we say that there are two choices, there’s parenting and there’s adoption.
Ron Reigns:
Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. If you’re listening and you’re dealing with an unplanned pregnancy and want more information about adoption, Building Arizona Families is a local Arizona adoption agency and available twenty-four-seven by phone text at (623) 695-4112. That’s 6-2-3-6-9-5-4-1-1-2. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get started on creating an Arizona adoption plan or just get you more information.
Ron Reigns:
You can also find out more information about Building Arizona Families on their website at azpregnancyhelp.com. Thanks also go out to Grapes for allowing us to use their song I Don’t Know as our theme song. Birth Mother Matters and Adoption was written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me. Please rate and review this podcast wherever you’re listening to us. We’d really appreciate it. We also now have a website at birthmothermatterspodcast.com. Tune in next time on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. For Kelly Rourke-Scarry, I’m Ron Reigns.Birth Mother Matters in Adoption Episode #97 – Updates: Adoption and Abortion News
