Ron Reigns:
Welcome. Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.

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Do what’s best for your kid and yourself. Because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid. And that’s not fair.

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And I know my daughter would be well cared for with them.

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Don’t have an abortion; give this child a chance.

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All I could think about was needing to save my son.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m the executive director, president, and co-founder of Building Arizona Family’s adoption agency in Phoenix AZ, the Donna K. Evans Foundation, and creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development and a master’s degree in education with an emphasis in school counseling. I was adopted at three days, born to a teen birth mother. I was raised in a closed adoption and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.

Ron Reigns:
And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the co-host of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now, I work for my wife, an adoption attorney, and I can combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So today’s podcast discusses when another adopted sibling joins the family and when a family decides to pursue a second adoption plan with an adoption agency in Phoenix AZ. One of my favorite quotes is by somebody unknown who says, “Not by blood, but bonded to each other just the same.” What was found in a study that was published in 1979 is that sibling relationships are among the most significant and potentially important bonds that individuals have in the course of their lifetime. I find this fascinating because it’s not just reflective of an adoptive household. It is reflective of any household where there are siblings.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
In the following two podcasts, we will talk about siblings, a traditional biological household, a blended family household, and a foster family household. There are lots of different families that can experience the same joys, the same issues, and have a lot of the same outcomes. So this is a really interesting topic that there’s not a lot of research done. And you think that there would be, especially with regard to adoption. If you look up adoption and siblings and research studies, there’s just not much out there. That’s definitely a point where we need to focus on as an adoption community, and those considering adoption.

Ron Reigns:
And I found that very interesting because as I was reading the materials that you kind of prepared for this episode, it really brought me back to my childhood and my relationship with my brother and my two sisters. And it was fascinating because family dynamics can diverge so vastly. I look at my wife’s family and think how their relationships went from one thing to another and then changed again. And my family is completely different. And so, I would be very interested in deeper studies of family relationships, not just as children, but as they grow up into adulthood and become old farts like me. And yeah, it was very fascinating. So thank you for providing all this information.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
One of the reasons I find this so fascinating is I grew up adopted. My brother was adopted five years after I was born. And so I grew up in an adoptive family with an adopted sibling. And when I talk about this, the question I get is usually, “Well, what was it like?” Well, I don’t have a reference point to compare it to. So, in my mind, it’s the same as everybody else. We weren’t raised, to my knowledge, any differently than if we had been biological siblings. We fought pretty much all of our childhood years, and now we’re great. I love seeing him. I love his children. I love his future wife. We’re great. And so, in reading studies of siblings, I don’t see any difference between us than had we been biological.

Ron Reigns:
Right. And because as you grew up, that is all you knew. That was your “lived reality.” And the parents presumably wouldn’t treat you any differently than they would their own biological children. Hopefully. There are exceptions to any rule. But I would think that, yeah, it’s the exact same as far as how you’re raised and how you grow up, and your relationship with a brother, sister, or whatever.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
What’s so interesting about that is, and you just brought up that point, that they wouldn’t bring you up any different. They didn’t have a reference point either because they didn’t have any biological children. So our normal was their normal. And that’s what a lot of people who are not in the adoption triad they don’t understand, is that when you don’t have other biological children, and you’re an adoptive parent, and you are raising two adopted children, people may say, “Are you raising them as if they were your own?” Well, there’s no point of normal or frame of reference. This is their normal. So to say that is almost offensive, if you will. It’s almost as if this is outside the box.

Ron Reigns:
Right. And, from an outsider’s perspective, it could be just curiosity at a different situation than they’re used to. But I wouldn’t even fathom to ask somebody that. Because I would just assume that it’s normal, the same as any other family. Whether it’s blended, biological, adopted, or foster, I would think it would be just kind of the same.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And that’s what we, as an adoption community, and you and I with our podcast, are trying to do. We’re really trying to make all of this normal and just family, and trying to break down those walls and barriers. And as a child growing up, I would go to friends’ houses that were not part of the adoption triad. And I would see their brothers and sisters and their interactions, and I’d watch it on TV. And it was all the same. It wasn’t any different than mine. We fought, and we got along just like everybody else.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But I agree with you. Every household has its own norms. What they will accept, what they won’t accept. It was just my brother and I. So we had a lot of attention, and a lot of the focus was on us. Whereas if you have a larger family, like I do, and we have a non-traditional family, being that we have a blended family, you are not able to focus on one child to the extent that you can if you only have two. When you have six in the house, time just doesn’t allow for it.

Ron Reigns:
Well, that makes sense. And I think something that would contribute more to a different upraising than adoption or biological would be just the dynamics. We’ve talked about age range and separation between the children, as far as ages, birth order, all those things. They come into play more so than adopted or not adopted.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I agree with you 100%. Having a blended family and disrupting the birth order definitely did shift some things for some of our kids. And really, only two of them were shifted out of their order. And so everybody else was able to maintain the same. So it was a pretty, I don’t want to say seamless, because it wasn’t seamless. There are always going to be hiccups and walls and issues to address when you have six children, and everybody is under the same roof.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But you learn so much, I think, as a member of a large family that I didn’t learn as a member of a smaller family. So with eight in house, we have nine total. I mean of us. I would say we have seven children, but one of them is on her own. But being a part of a family of nine, you do, you learn a lot because I think it pushes you to grow in areas that maybe you wouldn’t have grown. In other words, I’ve read studies where they say that larger families do teach children to share more and to compromise. And I didn’t have these things really growing up, so I don’t share well. I don’t. I do compromise well, but I don’t share well. And so that’s just one attribute. And how many were in your family growing up?

Ron Reigns:
There were four of us. So we’re kind of right in the middle of that. And now, when it comes to sharing, it’s interesting that you bring that up. Because I feel like I share very well, except when it comes to food. I’m not good at sharing food. That’s the worst because somebody sticks their hand in my french fries, I get territorial. Because we didn’t have a lot of food growing up. My mom couldn’t afford it. So you kind of held on, but as far as toys and stuff, I have no problem with that. I love sharing things now, and giving people things that are mine, that I’m like, “You know what? I think you’ll get better use out of it.” But food, that’s a different story.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That’s funny you say that. Because I actually have the same issue. Because I look at it like this. So if I have a hamburger and one child wants a bite, all other five in the house are going to come and want a bite. Then there’s no more hamburger.

Ron Reigns:
That’s exactly true.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That’s my excuse, and I’m sticking to it.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah. And even when I was dating Lisa, for instance, when we would go out and she would start eating my fries, I mean, we’re dating, I’m trying to be on my best behavior. But in the back of my head, I’m going, why didn’t you order fries? If you wanted them so bad.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That’s really funny.

Ron Reigns:
So, a little honesty is coming out here.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I’ve also heard about Lisa, about your wife, Adam has shared this with me, and you know that they’re brother and sister, that Lisa will wait until there is one bite left, and then ask for it.

Ron Reigns:
Yep.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
True.

Ron Reigns:
She did that to me just the other day. She still does that.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And she’s one of six.

Ron Reigns:
Exactly. According to an article titled Sibling Issues in Foster Care and Adoption by Child Welfare Information Gateway, “Sibling relationships are emotionally powerful and critically important, not only in childhood, but over the course of a lifetime. As children, siblings form a child’s first peer group. And they typically spend more time with each other than with anyone else. Children learn social skills, particularly in sharing and managing conflict, from negotiating with brothers and sisters. Sibling relationships can provide a significant source of continuity throughout a child’s lifetime and are likely the longest relationships most people experience.

Ron Reigns:
The nature and importance of sibling relationships vary for individuals depending on their own circumstances and developmental stage. Typically there is rivalry in preschool years, variability in closeness during middle childhood, depending on the level of warmth in the relationship, and less sibling closeness in adolescents when teens are focused on peers. An extensive body of research addresses issues of birth order, gender, age spacing, and other influences on sibling relationships. Research has demonstrated that warmth in sibling relationships is associated with less loneliness, fewer behavior problems, and higher self-worth.

Ron Reigns:
Marjut Kosonen studied the emotional support and help that siblings provide and found that when they needed help, children would first seek out their mothers, but then turn to older siblings for support even before they would go to their fathers. She also found that sibling support is especially crucial for isolated children, as in the case of many children in foster care. For these children, an older sibling was often their only perceived so of help.”

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So what I think is so important about this article is it really emphasizes the importance of siblings. So families that have one child and are looking at adopting a second child, I’m a big proponent of multiple children. It’s not for everybody. I understand that some parents have a child, and they feel this is what they can handle. And this is what’s right. And they should stick to what is right for their family.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That being said, I have seen, it’s like puppies, for instance. When puppies are nipping at each other and their litter mates, the other puppy will yip really loud. And that signals to the puppy that’s biting to stop. Too hard. Siblings kind of do the same thing. Remember those old games? It wasn’t a ping pong ball. It was those where you’d pull the lever on the machine, and then the ball would do this. What is that called?

Ron Reigns:
Pinball?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. Pinball. And you know how it just kind of keeps you in the center of the game, right? Down the middle? Kind of what siblings do. I mean, I will watch my girls, and one of them will come out in something, in a skirt. And then the other sister will say, “That’s short. Too short.” And then they’ll kind of argue back and forth. And then, most of the time, without me even saying anything, my daughter will walk back into the room and change it. So it’s kind of that pinball machine to where it kind of keeps everybody in check, if you will. Or another example would be when my youngest son decides to exert himself and gets a little mouthy. Before anybody can have a chance to say anything, one of the kids is chiming in at him to stop being disrespectful.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And so it is that pinball approach. And so I think that it is very healthy. And I would love to see more studies on relationships between siblings. I know some are out there, but not to the extent. We’re so focused as an adoption community on nature versus nurture and what that really looks like. But yet the siblings would give us that platform if we really studied more about siblings to really dive deeper into nature versus nurture and so forth. So that would be fascinating to me.

Ron Reigns:
I agree 1,000%. And like I said before, as I was going through the information on here, it really did bring me back and remind me of how important my relationship with my brother and my two sisters was, because I was the youngest, so in my own becoming who I am and getting those boundaries. My mom gave me certain parental boundaries, but my siblings showed me those boundaries from the point of view of somebody that was much closer in age to me. So I could look up to my oldest sister and go, oh, she did it that way. And I kind of followed suit. Or my brother and go, I want to be like my brother, and I would follow suit. And really, it’s amazing how much it made me think how these family dynamics were important to me growing up personally.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And you grew up with a disability. How did your siblings positively or negatively influence that aspect of your life?

Ron Reigns:
I think they rallied around me a little bit because of it. And they supported me knowing that, okay, he’s got this thing that he can’t really change or do anything about, and kind of hinders what he’s able to do. And I think that they kind of took me under their wing. You know what I mean? And so it was helpful because otherwise I would’ve felt like just an outcast and I’m different from everybody. But even being different, they were supportive of me. And then even when I started developing relationships in my own sphere of other peers, I would look for people that would support me. I mean, we would all kind of tease each other and joke around about things, just like my family would. But I always knew there was support. And I looked for that in friends, and then eventually in relationships.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
They set the bar.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah, they really did. I mean it makes me really want to call all my family members and say, “Hey, thanks just for being you and just the relationships we had growing up.” Because much like you-

Ron Reigns:
… and your brother, we fought, we loved, we had a great time. And we had some hard times and some knock down drag outs, but it was all a blessing to me.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. And they know you better than anybody in the world. And I think that those relationships are so important. When I was able to reunite with my biological mom, I met my two brothers and I have, I believe, an amazing relationship with them. We didn’t grow up together, but the connection we have is still incredible. So yeah, I feel so blessed to have them in my life. So, I completely understand what you’re saying.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
In what you just read a couple minutes ago, you stated the research has demonstrated that warmth in sibling relationships is associated with less loneliness, fewer behavior problems, and higher self-worth. I really believe that statement to be true. I can’t tell you how many times my nine year old in the past two years would come home from school, and say so and so was picking on me on the bus, or somebody did this. And all the siblings were jumping up, saying, “I got it.” “I got it.” “No, I got it.” And then his now 12 year old sister was like, “I already handled it.” So it’s neat to watch. And as a parent, there’s nothing in the world like turning around and seeing two of your children hugging each other during a hard moment, or supporting each other without you asking them to. So I think it’s really incredible. I agree.

Ron Reigns:
And to connect that actually with the question you had for me before about the disability, it brings to mind a particular story of when I was in high school, I was a sophomore, or maybe I was a freshman and my brother was a senior. So he was a couple years ahead. And one of my peers, one of my friends, had teased me about my eyes. And my brother saw this from down the corridor, or whatever you call it, from down the sidewalk basically. And when I had gone to my class, that kid walked around the corner to where my brother was waiting, and my brother put him against the wall and said, “You don’t mess with him.” And I found out about this, obviously later. I was just doing my thing. And it was heartwarming because it was like, wow, he really would stand up for me and just kind of put somebody in their place and say, “Hey, that’s not acceptable.” And I thought that was pretty cool. But yeah, same thing.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It’s amazing. And it goes to say, nobody outside the family can touch one of your siblings except for the sibling in that family.

Ron Reigns:
That same brother would punch me in the arm and give me wedgies and all that all day long. And that’s fine.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Oh man. Yeah. No, I totally get it. So some common questions that we get asked by adoptive families are, when is the best time to begin a second adoption? When the time is right for you. Adoption plans can take a while, or they can happen very quickly. So, really, when is the best time for you? Regarding the birth order, should a baby be adopted to maintain the birth order? That’s really what you believe. There are so many decisions when you are creating your family. I think birth order is one of those topics that everybody has a very strong opinion on. Should you stay within the birth order? Should you go outside the birth order? Does it really matter? And so to give an answer on that, I feel is really kind of touchy. My personal opinion is, if it was up to me, I think the birth order is established for a reason. I think that it really does help for continuity and the children. But yet, there are so many times I’ve seen where it’s worked out great.

Ron Reigns:
Well, even for instance, your family. Like you said, the blended family, the Brady Bunch kind of approach to parenting. Obviously that is subverted. That birth order gets all changed up because of this whole new family coming in. And it’s worked out great for you guys.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes. Oh, but not without our hiccups and issues. You know what I mean? It would be naive to think, going into building our blended family, that it was going to be all roses and rainbows. And no, that’s not reality. But the changing of the birth order did not have a negative effect in our household. The children did acclimate. They have done very well with it. And again, only two of them were really butted out of their-

Ron Reigns:
Right. Displaced from their position.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. And so it wasn’t significant. There wasn’t a whole lot of change up. So that was helpful. Should I adopt the same race as my first baby? I do get asked this question a lot. And again, that’s not for me to decide. In the adoption world, some families are colorblind and it doesn’t matter to them. Other families want to appear as if there was no adoption. They want the children to look like them. They don’t want to answer questions. They don’t take on the Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt approach. I think all families are beautiful. And I think that you have to choose what’s ever right for you. And again, there are so many stances on this that you really have to go with the research that you have read and done on your own and what you believe in.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
What if the birth parents of my adopted child experience a second unplanned pregnancy and choose adoption? Well, in our adoption agency in Phoenix AZ, and I can just speak for Building Arizona Families, we always ask the birth mother if she would like to have the same family if she chooses to do a second adoption. And this is something that we do encourage. I love to keep siblings together. I think that’s ideal. But not every birth mother will choose that. So when families say, “Should I wait and see if she gets pregnant again,” well, I mean, you’ve got a chance that it might happen, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that she’s going to choose you. So it really depends what I’ve seen on the relationship that is built after the first adoption. If there’s a really close relationship and the post-adoption communication agreement has been followed, and everybody is having a good time, then usually they will choose the adoptive family. But when it doesn’t go as well, they don’t.

Ron Reigns:
Now, it also would depend upon the adoptive family. Maybe they just don’t want another child. You know what I mean? Does that happen often?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Sometimes. So we’ve had birth mothers where they’ve come to the agency three times. And yes, we do very much teach and preach birth control, but they’ve come three times. And at the third placement, the family said, “We can’t do anymore. This is our limit.” And I totally understand that. And I do see, for them, it will be very difficult if the birth mother comes back to our Phoenix AZ adoption agency pregnant again. Because obviously we’ll reach out and let them know if she wants to have them adopt this baby as well. But to know that there’s another child out there that somebody else is then going to adopt.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
What I have seen people do is have a communication agreement informally between the two adoptive families so that the siblings can still maintain some contact. I have seen that. It’s nothing that’s really formal. It’s informal. But that is nice, especially for the children. So yes, we have had families that have said, “You know what? I just can’t. I just can’t.” And that happens.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Should I choose a gender this time? We actually don’t do gender preferences. When you are having your own biological child, there aren’t really special requests. And so we, as an agency, have done away with the gender requests.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
What if I prepare my child for this baby and the birth parents change their mind about placing the baby for adoption? This is a hard one. What I would would say is when you are discussing adopting a second child or a third child, or whatever number this is, with your child or children really be mindful of their age, and give them information as they ask. Let them know what’s happening. And don’t give definitives. Well, this is going to happen in December. Well, this is going to happen this. What you can say is, is that if you have a child under the age of five, is we’re looking to adopt again, and we’re really excited about this happening, and we’ll have to wait and see. And as it gets closer, you can inform a little bit.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But you definitely don’t want to get a child’s hopes up. When you have children that are maybe between the ages of five and 10, start preparing them for a sibling, but maybe not let them know just yet when that sibling may come home. Because you may not know. Again, as they get older, telling them what they need to know. And definitely enough time to prepare, but not too much where they get anxious and they’re counting off days with you and hours. And that can be overwhelming.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah. Okay. And expectations can be just shut down and it breaks the heart of the child just as much as the parents. So if you don’t raise and elevate those expectations too high, it’ll help cushion that blow.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Exactly. What if the birth parents want a different type of post-adoption communication agreement? So this situation usually comes if a family is adopting from a different birth mother. So if they have an post-adoption communication agreement with one set of birth parents and a different one, again, you just explain to the children. This is what was right for your birth mother, and this is how she wanted it to go. And this was right for your birth mother, and this is how she wanted it to go. And then, as they get older, you can take it a step further and maybe explain why. Maybe your mom wasn’t in a place where she had a consistent telephone or computer, and she wasn’t able to keep up the contact. Or maybe your mom… You know what I mean? So there’s reasons why. But again, explaining it when they’re very young is just confusing. So, trying to give them age-appropriate answers is what to focus on.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
After I bring my second baby home, how do I answer the question are they siblings? Yes. So we, as a society, have taken a lot of liberties in what we say and ask people that we don’t know. And people that we kind of know, that we’re acquaintances with. And I would love for that to stop because I think that it is very inappropriate and almost hurtful when I have a family call me, and they’re standing in line at Walmart, and they may have children they have adopted. They’re different races. And somebody will turn around and ask if they’re babysitting or if they’re a foster home. And it’s offensive. So when people ask if they’re siblings, of course, they’re siblings. You’ve adopted two children. I would say that’s all you need to answer. It doesn’t matter if they have the same biological mom or not. If you are raising them as siblings, then just leave it there.

Ron Reigns:
Now, do you think that’s getting better as time… I mean, because when you look at the Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt and all that, and the families that they’ve created, I think that shines a light on it. And I think people are less apt nowadays to ask something that could be hurtful or offensive like that just because it is becoming a little more normal to see families that are so diverse.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I think in some areas, yes. I do think that Angelina Jolie has done wonders for the adoption world. I really do. I do think in some areas, yes. But I think as a whole, even outside of adoption, I think that people go into areas of questioning that are how highly inappropriate, and frankly, none of their business.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Another question I get asked is how many babies are enough. Our birth parents keep coming back pregnant, but I don’t want to adopt our child’s siblings. And we talked about that a couple minutes ago. Really that’s up to you, and you’re not under an obligation because keep getting pregnant and having babies to keep adopting them. You don’t want to end up being the little old woman that lived in a shoe. Had so many children, she didn’t know what to do. I get it. So that is absolutely your choice.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
When a child does have a different adoption story, maybe theirs is unique. And I think actually every child’s adoption story is unique. They’re like snowflakes. I know we’ve talked about birth mothers as snowflakes in the past. And I think that it’s important to celebrate the differences, understanding that children really don’t want to be looked at as different. They want to be the same as everybody else. When I was a child, people would come up to me and say, “Oh, you’re so lucky you got adopted.”

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Well, first of all, I didn’t really want them coming up to me and telling me that I was adopted. And second of all, telling me that I was lucky, I had no frame of reference what it would’ve been like to be unlucky. So what they were saying was more for them than it was for me because all they did was single me out. It wasn’t like I had an aha moment or the ball dropped, and I was like, wow, I’m lucky. It wasn’t like that. Children really want to be birds of a feather flock together. They really want to be birds of a feather. They don’t want to be the ostrich in the group of cardinals. And so they want to be the same.

Ron Reigns:
Well, I was just wondering if the wording was different. For instance, if somebody came up to you and was talking to you about it and said, “I think that’s cool,” as opposed to, “I think you’re so lucky.” Do you think that would’ve changed your perception of what they were saying? No?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
No. No.

Ron Reigns:
Even when you just say, I think that’s cool. No, kind of keeping it casual. It still singles you out as different.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And only speaking for myself and the children that I’ve worked with, no, they don’t want to be singled out. It would be no different than somebody coming up to you, you wanted to be as normal as everybody else. You wanted to be looked at as the same, right?

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So if somebody was to come up and say, “It’s so cool that you can see so many shades of gray,” would you be like, okay, that’s kind of cool. Or would you be like, yeah.

Ron Reigns:
Now, if they had said that, that would definitely make me feel singled out. But if they said, “I think it’s cool how, despite your eyesight issues, you are still able to do something that a lot of people wouldn’t.” Because I would see it as a compliment. I would. You know what? Then that’s a personal thing. Maybe that’s why I asked you the question. But I would see that as oh, okay, they’re noticing that, okay, yeah, I’m different, but I’m able to achieve some degree of normalcy through how I conduct myself.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I just wanted to be normal like everybody else.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah. And again, I’ve tried to avoid people even knowing that I had eyesight problems as much as I could. So I guess I’m talking about a friend coming up that knew. But if somebody else, like a stranger, came up and said, “Oh, I can tell you’re legally blind, and I think it’s cool that you…” Yeah. So, I guess that would single me out in a different way and make me feel not normal.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
To put it out there, I’m not comparing being adopted with having a disability. I’m just saying that anything and everything that singles a child out from the pack of normalcy per se, anything that’s a deviation from the traditional standard, I guess, crowd, if you will, is often perceived as not the same. And kids want to be the same.

Ron Reigns:
Okay. Yeah. That’s totally fair. And when I kind of put it in my own mind as a perspective from a stranger, as opposed to somebody who knows me better. In my head, I put in a certain friend that would talk to me about it, and it never offended me because that person knew me in a closer relationship. But somebody from outside of that that didn’t know anything about me, yeah, I would feel like singled out and de-normalized.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And I can tell you that even as a young adult, I had just had my oldest daughter. So I was in my early, early 20s. And I was on a jog with a family member. I don’t want to say who. But with a family member. And she said to me, “It’s so hard to believe that you’re adopted.” I remember I stopped jogging and I looked at her, and I asked why. And she said, “Because you’re so much like us.” And so, immediately, it was like I was being pushed into a different category. And I was like them, but it was a reminder that biologically I wasn’t. And so it was, yeah, that was hard. And that was a long time ago, decades ago. And I remember it like it was yesterday. So that would be another example of, yeah… She didn’t mean it in a bad way, mind you. She didn’t mean it at all.

Ron Reigns:
Right. Oh, absolutely. I’m sure she meant no malice whatsoever. But that’s exactly how you would feel like I’m not good enough to be part of you.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Exactly.

Ron Reigns:
Okay. There’s some really interesting points made by an article titled Preparing Children for the Adoption of a Sibling: Recommendations for Families Considering Intercountry Adoptions by Laura Beauvais-Godwin. The article’s very relatable for domestic adoptions because it describes the preparation for the addition of another sibling. One of the recommendations made is to share with your children of all ages that you are considering adoption. “Once that discussion becomes serious, and you begin to talk on the phone or schedule meeting with an adoption agency. It’s also important to know how your children feel about having another brother or sister. However, it should be clear that they are not part of the ultimate decision to adopt. Adoption is an adult decision. You should talk frequently about the adoption to come, discuss what it will be like to bring a new child into your home. Make a list of some of the good things about having another brother or sister and another list of some of the challenges to expect.”

Ron Reigns:
And finally, “Every adopted child has a history before arriving in the family’s home. Certain details may not be appropriate to share. So if you feel that some information is too sensitive and your other children might repeat it to others, for instance, you may choose not to disclose it to them. Every child has a right to their own history. And if, when, and how it’s fully shared with others.”

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
This article was very, I think, relatable for those adopting and those with a non-traditional family. Almost like a Modern Family. I know there was that show. I’ve never seen it, but I’ve heard lots about it. We began with a quote, so I wanted to end with a quote. And this is a Vietnamese proverb, “Brothers and sisters are as close as hands and feet.”

Ron Reigns:
Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. If you’re listening and you’re dealing with an unplanned pregnancy and want more information about adoption, Building Arizona Families is a local adoption agency in Phoenix AZ and available 24/7 by phone or text at (623) 695-4112. That’s (623) 695-4112. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get started on creating an Arizona adoption plan, or just get you more information.

Ron Reigns:
You can also find out more information about Building Arizona Families on their website at azpregnancyhelp.com. Thanks also go out to Grapes for allowing us to use their song I Don’t Know as our theme song. Birth Mother Matters in Adoption was written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me. Please rate and review this podcast wherever you’re listening to us. We’d really appreciate it. We also now have a website at birthmothermatterspodcast.com. Tune in next time on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. For Kelly Rourke-Scarry, I’m Ron Reigns.