Ron Reigns:
Today, we’re going to start the show with a special guest. Adam Scarry has been marketing in the corporate sector for 17 years. He’s the director of operations for Building Arizona Families, a board member of the Donna K. Evans foundation, and the husband of Kelly Rourke-Scarry.

Adam Scarry:
I cover all the angles. Yeah, they had asked me just to mention something about Kelly’s story. I think the most polarizing aspect to me was actually Kelly was the first person that I had ever met who was adopted. I didn’t know that it was, it’s not really an underground culture, but it’s something that people don’t seem to celebrate and talk about in a positive context. One thing that sticks out with me is, Kelly was born eight days before the actual landmark case of Roe versus Wade. I thought to myself, you know, I wonder if Kelly’s mom had been given the option, had it been legal, what her choice would have been, had abortion been a viable option.

Adam Scarry:
And the thing that sticks out to me is not only, and everyone’s got their political bias and their personal bent, but I think the thing that sticks out to me that’s undeniable and irrefutable is, if Kelly’s mom would have chosen to terminate her pregnancy, what she really would’ve done was abort all the future potential of that child, or in this instance Kelly, and because she made a selfless decision. Yeah, it’s not always the easy decision and oftentimes easy decisions aren’t always the most beneficial or the most advantageous for us. But in Kelly’s mother making the decision to place her for adoption, out of that decision has come the direct intervention and a rescue of over 700 other children.

Adam Scarry:
The argument, at least in my mind, a working example is, you’re not just terminating a pregnancy. That’s a very sterile, a very clean, sanitary concept. You’re terminating the potential of a life and all the lives they could have impacted. And out of the 46 million that we’ve aborted so far, nobody knows how many doctors, lawyers, presidents, congressmen, senators, biochemists, inventors, entrepreneurs we’ve aborted.

Adam Scarry:
I can tell you, at least in my family, had Donna K. Evans chosen what could’ve very easily been the low road, had there been about weeks difference, there would be hundreds and hundreds of kids whose lives would never have been impacted by Kelly because you terminate their destiny, you terminate their potential. You’re not just terminating a life, you’re terminating all the impact that life could have made. So as far as that argument, I think my wife’s story trumps the argument that, oh, it’s just another baby. Well, in her case, it was a woman who became a social worker who has made it her life’s mission to save other children.

Adam Scarry:
And when we got together, began dating, engaged, married, it became my passion. I came out of the corporate sector, had almost no exposure to adoption, and now that’s become my life’s mission. And so who knows what we will do, what the final number will be. But it’s much like Oskar Schindler who, once taken his eyes off himself and began to look in a longterm versus the temporal, found the value in people’s potential, not just where they are at the moment, which is why we have an aftercare program.

Adam Scarry:
I can tell you at least in my mind, that settles the argument that it may be a fetus to some, a mistake to others, but really what you’re holding is someone’s destiny in your hands, someone’s future, and all the impact they can make for good. And if there’s ever a working example of that, it would be my wife and her story.

Ron Reigns:
Welcome and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.

Speaker 3:
Do what’s best for your kid and for yourself because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid and that’s not fair.

Speaker 4:
And I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.

Speaker 5:
Don’t have an abortion, give this child a chance.

Speaker 6:
All I could think about was needing to save my son.

Kelly R.S.:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I am the executive director, president, and co-founder of Building Arizona Families Adoption Agency, the Donna K. Evans Foundation, and creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in Family Studies and Human Development and a master’s degree in Education with an emphasis in school counseling. I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother, raised in a closed adoption and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I had worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.

Ron Reigns:
And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the cohost of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife who’s an adoption attorney and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.

Ron Reigns:
Last night, I watched Unplanned.

Kelly R.S.:
Oh, I’ve seen that.

Ron Reigns:
And I thought it was very powerful movie. I thought it was very well done. I only had one problem with it. I think it was preaching to the choir, the people that are going to get information out of that already believe that abortion is the wrong choice, and I think we need to make that more known. We need to not say, okay, let’s not talk to the religious people necessarily. Let’s put out the facts and let them realize that these are lives.

Kelly R.S.:
You know, I think that’s a very good point. I also have seen the movie. I saw it when it came out. I try really hard to stay on top of the movies that discuss adoption and abortion, even the ones that are made for TV because we often get phone calls as an agency after they are released.

Ron Reigns:
I bet you do.

Kelly R.S.:
So I agree with you on the movie. I think that we are continually targeting the people that are already on our boat.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly R.S.:
And I think that if we step outside of the box, that is where we’re going to change what society understands, and we can only do that through education.

Ron Reigns:
Right. I think it’s vital.

Kelly R.S.:
It’s vital.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly R.S.:
And it’s time. I think as a country and as a society we are gravitating towards more knowledge, and that is being shown in the laws that are being passed through the heartbeat law and some of the other laws in terms of when abortions can happen or changing. So that is an incredible piece. I love that you watched the movie.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah.

Kelly R.S.:
I had a very hard time during the abortion scene.

Ron Reigns:
Oh, Lisa couldn’t watch it. She’s like, “I got to turn away. I can’t … ” And she was tearing up and yeah.

Kelly R.S.:
My 16-year-old wanted to see the movie and I let her. And she is very, very, very pro-life. I was hesitant to let her watch the movie because of that one scene.

Ron Reigns:
It is hard, very hard. There’s a couple of scenes that Lisa’s like, “I just can’t do this.” But it’s powerful.

Kelly R.S.:
It’s powerful. And where I think the movie did an amazing job was really portraying an insider’s view into Planned Parenthood. I know that they’re contesting some of the aspects of it, and I don’t want to get into the legalities of it. However, I learned a lot about Planned Parenthood, not necessarily about abortion, but about Planned Parenthood itself.

Ron Reigns:
As an organization.

Kelly R.S.:
As an organization.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly R.S.:
Regardless of whether there are some myths intermixed in that movie or not, I did learn more. And again, every time I learn something, knowledge is power and it just helps us rise to the next level.

Ron Reigns:
After you watch a movie like that and last night, this is what I did, I literally went online and started looking up debates for and against abortion. You want more knowledge, more power to go, “Okay, this either supports my beliefs or this makes me think, could I be wrong?” You know.

Kelly R.S.:
Absolutely.

Ron Reigns:
And I think that’s what we need to do as people.

Kelly R.S.:
Anytime that you have a stance on something like abortion or adoption, you always need to see the other side.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah.

Kelly R.S.:
Because I think that turning a blind eye to the other side is not going to make you more educated or understanding. I think that also when we are looking at something and we learned where the other side is coming from, we’re able to meet them where they are.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly R.S.:
Again, I’ve talked about being present in the moment. If you’re present in the moment and meeting people where they are, you’re going to reach them. If you’re not understanding where they’re coming from, you’re not going to form a connection and you’re not going to get your point across and you’re not going to be heard. So the most important thing, in my opinion, is really being able to understand.

Ron Reigns:
And empathize.

Kelly R.S.:
Even if you disagree. Some people will be so resolute in their own doctrine that you have to be the person to step outside of your comfort zone, your box, and-

Ron Reigns:
And put out that hand?

Kelly R.S.:
Yes.

Ron Reigns:
And welcome them and or listen and know what they’re talking about and where they’re coming …

Kelly R.S.:
An olive branch is-

Ron Reigns:
Very, very powerful.

Kelly R.S.:
Yes.

Ron Reigns:
Thank you.

Kelly R.S.:
Absolutely. When I developed the You Before Me campaign, it was not to condemn anybody who’s had an abortion, it was an is to celebrate the women that chose adoption and to educate those that have had abortions and are considering future abortions.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly R.S.:
When you are talking with a woman who is deciding what to do when she’s being faced with an unplanned pregnancy and she’s scared and worried and anxious and has every emotion imaginable, she’s excited on one hand and terrified on another. At that point, the best thing that anybody can do in talking with a woman who is facing an unplanned pregnancy is ride the roller coaster with her. Take her hand and just listen.

Ron Reigns:
Nice.

Kelly R.S.:
Oftentimes, people want to exert their opinion. They want to fix the problem, they want to take over and really make sure that that person’s fine when sometimes people just want to be heard.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly R.S.:
Taking a step back, providing education, explaining what the options really look like short term, long term, and letting her make a decision that she’s going to be comfortable with it, that she’s going to follow through on.

Ron Reigns:
In the long-term and years down the road, they can look back and go, “I’m glad I made that choice.”

Kelly R.S.:
“I’m proud of myself. I can look myself in the mirror and know I did the right thing and it was really hard, but I did the right thing.”

Ron Reigns:
And it was discomfort and emotion and everything else going into it, and am I giving away my baby? Which we talked about. No, you’re not. You’re placing that child.

Kelly R.S.:
You’re lovingly placing that child.

Ron Reigns:
Good.

Kelly R.S.:
And that’s important too because when a woman is making that choice, she is going to be influenced by outside factors. As a society, unfortunately, many people have normalized the concept of abortion.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah.

Kelly R.S.:
We need to work on normalizing concept of adoption.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly R.S.:
As an adoption community and people who have participated in adoption, whether it’d be a birth mother, an adoptive child, an adoptive parent, it’s important to discuss it. It needs to be the norm.

Kelly R.S.:
When kids are playing video games and they’re playing the shooting games, my kids love video games. We have every gaming system imaginable.

Ron Reigns:
Lucky.

Kelly R.S.:
People will often say … Yeah, right? Lucky for them not so much for me.

Ron Reigns:
Not so much for you.

Kelly R.S.:
People often say, “Aren’t you concerned about the shooting games?”

Ron Reigns:
The violence.

Kelly R.S.:
And yes, and it’s going to desensitize them and it’s going to be non-beneficial in the future and it’s going to be harmful. And it’s almost ironic to me that we’re so focused on one aspect of what the future can hold if we let our children play video games.

Ron Reigns:
And normalize that.

Kelly R.S.:
Right. We’ve normalized that, desensitize our children to these video games, but yet abortion is happening …

Ron Reigns:
Constantly.

Kelly R.S.:
… every day.

Ron Reigns:
It’s already normalized.

Kelly R.S.:
Correct. And unfortunately, many are desensitized to it. And that is why women are having multiple abortions and not just this was an unplanned pregnancy and whether it’s one baby or seven, it’s a tragedy. And when I’m not in any way, shape, or form discounting this shooting games and the impact they may or may not have, I’m using it as an analogy to where we’re focusing a lot of time, effort, energy studies on what’s the long term effect of video games, but we’re not really focusing as much time, attention and detail to what’s the long-term effect of abortion.

Kelly R.S.:
And by changing that focus to adoption and putting our time, effort, energy into the promotion of adoption education, I think as a society we can change the mindset and the alternative go-to when a birth mother chooses not to parent.

Ron Reigns:
Right and look at the long-term benefits of adoption over abortion; mental, physical, all that.

Kelly R.S.:
Right. Some studies that I have read, and again, certain studies that we share on the podcast, we will be citing sources. The ones that we’re not citing sources on, we will state that as well. And it’s because there’s so many general studies out there. I read a study that stated that the leading cause of death is actually abortion and …

Ron Reigns:
It’s not heart disease and car accidents?

Kelly R.S.:
No.

Ron Reigns:
It’s abortion?

Kelly R.S.:
If you believe a baby is …

Ron Reigns:
A baby at conception.

Kelly R.S.:
… a human at conception, then the leading cause of death is abortion. And that to me-

Ron Reigns:
That’s chilling.

Kelly R.S.:
Right. It’s heart-wrenching. Because as a society, these are our babies and we see on the news when there is a bad car accident, and we lose a family and that’s terrible and devastating. We’re watching, and I’m getting chills as I’m saying this, we’re watching on the news these mass murders and as a nation we’re grieving over the loss and it’s-

Ron Reigns:
As well we should.

Kelly R.S.:
100%.

Ron Reigns:
In comparison, numbers wise-

Kelly R.S.:
But we’re not grieving for these babies.

Ron Reigns:
Thank you.

Kelly R.S.:
Our goal in the You Before Me campaign is to promote that there is a third choice, and that’s adoption.

Ron Reigns:
In my opinion, a better choice.

Lacey:
My name is Lacey and I placed my daughter Jayda two months ago. I chose adoption because I didn’t feel it was fair to her to go the route where you terminate a pregnancy because it really had nothing to do with her. I was the responsible party and I needed to make a decision accordingly. So because the father left when I was three months pregnant and I already have two daughters, I knew that was the only option really for her to have a better life, and I knew that there was a lot of beautiful families out there who can’t have kids or for whatever reason, they don’t go through that process. So I felt that it was the best thing for her is to give her everything I could never give her. So that’s why I placed her.

Lacey:
I chose Building Arizona Families because I was kind of in a situation where I was going to be kicked out of my house and I was going to have nowhere to go, be five months pregnant, and they got me in. They got me taken care of. They basically saved my life and they saved my baby’s life because I would have been homeless on the street. They were amazing. I got in here and they took care of me and were there with me through the whole journey. So it was a good choice.

Lacey:
I didn’t think I was strong enough to do it and I did it and I’m in a really good place now, even though it’s only been two months, I’m in a very good place. And I have a really good adoptive family who are beautiful to me, and so it can turn out good for everyone involved.

Lacey:
Building Arizona Families, they were just supportive through the whole process. My case manager, Blaine was beautiful. I love her. And she was there no matter what I needed. Like I said, all my needs were taken care of. I’m really glad I chose this place and the people here are wonderful, and they support you the whole way.

Ron Reigns:
We have a pregnancy crisis hotline available 24/7 by phone or text at (623) 695-4112 or you can call us toll free at 1-800-3409665. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get you to a safe place, provide food and clothing and get started on creating an Arizona adoption plan. You can check out the blogs on our website at azpregnancyhelp.com.

Ron Reigns:
Special thanks this week to Adam Scarry as well as to Admiral Bob for the use of their song, Where Are You? As always, thanks to Grapes for letting us use their song, I Don’t Know. as our theme song. Join us next time on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. We’re Kelly Rourke-Scarry, I’m Ron Reigns. We’ll see you then.

 

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Building 6, Suite 152
Phoenix, AZ 85021

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