Ron Reigns:

Welcome. And thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.

Speaker 2:

Do what’s best for your kid, and for yourself, because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid and that’s not fair.

Speaker 3:

And I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.

Speaker 4:

Don’t have an abortion, give this child a chance.

Speaker 5:

All I could think about was needing to save my son.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m the Executive Director, President and co-founder of Building Arizona Families Adoption Agency, The Donna K. Evans Foundation, and creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a Bachelor’s degree in Family Studies and Human Development and a Master’s degree in Education with an emphasis in school counseling. I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother, raised in a closed adoption, and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.

Ron Reigns:

And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the co-host of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife, who’s an adoption attorney, and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

All right. So today we’re going to discuss adoption reunifications and the effects that adoption reunification can have on the adoptees children, whether they’re biological or adopted. And when I went through my adoption reunification, my oldest daughter was 10 years old and she is going to join us today and talk about how the experience impacted her life then, and now, and looking back on it, how she can help other people who are in the same situation, what to expect, what the experience was like, how it changed or didn’t change who she is today.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

So that was a long time ago, but my daughter, Michelle is with us. Hi Michelle. Thank you for joining us.

Michelle:

Hey, thanks for having me.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Again, you were 10 years old when I found my birth mother.

Michelle:

Yes.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

And it took me about six to eight months from the time I started looking for her to the time I actually reunited with her. And the first time we agreed to adoption reunification, I reunited with her, I had flown from Phoenix to Ohio and I didn’t actually take any of my children with me. I went with one of my best girlfriends and I didn’t know what it was going to be like, I didn’t know what I was going to get into, and so I thought it was better if I just went alone the first time. However, my mother did come to visit us on two different occasions, and one of them was about four to six weeks after I went out to meet her for the first time.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

So, Michelle, when you heard that I had found my biological mother, what were some of your first thoughts on our adoption reunification?

Michelle:

Some of my first thoughts were that I had originally assumed that it wasn’t going to be as pleasant a meeting. And that’s probably because when I was younger, when I was 10 years old, I didn’t fully understand that there are certain circumstances that can cause you to look towards adoption as an answer, whereas I had always assumed that people who put their kids up for adoption were doing it simply because they didn’t want them in their lives and not because of certain circumstances or events or so on.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

So at that point you thought that my mom had not wanted me in her life and that was why she had made an adoption choice.

Michelle:

Yes, exactly.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

And that’s so interesting, Ron, because from a 10 year old’s perspective, and granted this was 14 years ago, that is the mentality of a lot of people. And that is why we do the podcast today is to change that perception because that’s not the case. So that’s really interesting.

Ron Reigns:

Yeah, it absolutely is. And that’s what we’ve been saying since day one. We’re trying to get the word out there and have people understand what adoption is and what reasons people would have for placing a child for adoption.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

So, tell everybody about the first time that you met, and you call her Memaw, which is how she demanded that everyone call her. So talk a little bit about her and your first adoption reunification encounter with her. What did you think? What was she like? Was she like your adoptive grandparents?

Michelle:

I would say that she was the complete opposite of my adoptive grandparents and probably the complete opposite of what I was originally expecting. I was expecting a woman very much like you, my mother, but something that I wasn’t expecting is that she was very outspoken about her opinions. She was very proud to say what she believed in. She didn’t take into account what people thought of her, because she just simply didn’t care, and I had never quite met anybody who so strongly felt that way.

Ron Reigns:

Has that affected you in any way, as far as, because you seem pretty reserved when it comes to what other people think of you. I mean, do you ever just kind of, “Hey, it’s my opinion. You don’t like it. You can take off. I don’t care.” Or did that impact you the other way? Did it maybe make you more conservative about how other people view you?

Michelle:

I would say that she showed me that I don’t have to care what other people think about me and it is something that I still struggle with, I can definitely say that, but she’s kind of opened that door of you don’t have to take into account what other people think, you don’t have to-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Live or die in their court of opinion.

Michelle:

Exactly.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

When I found her, you had shared with me a little bit before the podcast that you saw some similarities between her and I, but that you also saw some change in me.

Michelle:

Yes. When I met her, I noticed that there are definitely some qualities that you have as well that are very similar, but something that I noticed after you had met her, you were almost able to open up to a way of life that she was living, which is very free, very open, very open-minded, very honest. And while you had those qualities before, I feel like you were a lot more open about showing them and being yourself about it.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

When your experience had been my adopted parents, which would be your adopted grandmother, they were the only grandparents on my side that you knew. And when you met Memaw, was it shocking? In other words, when she first came off the plane and you met her for the first time, you had already heard stories because I had already gone out there and I had met her. How did you describe her to your friends? How did you explain what was happening in your life to other people? How would you explain it now looking back on it?

Michelle:

Now I would say that she is a person who, even though I had never been in her life prior and she didn’t even know about me, she opened her arms to me, without question. There was no conditions. There was no precursors. It was immediately she was ready for a connection. And it just really surprised me because I had assumed that since, I mean, I grew up with my adoptive grandparents and had forged a relationship, whereas I had never gotten the chance to do that with her, but she made it so easy, and I mean she was so wild and free and was the wind, she was easy to get along with. And you just never knew what to expect of her and I just fell in love with her.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Yeah.

Ron Reigns:

Now, do you realize, as an adult or did you as a child, how blessed you were to have these two so drastically different sets of grandparents or, well, the grandmother, and then the set of grandparents you already knew, and such diverse people. So you get more of a well rounded raising as you’re going up. Does that make sense or?

Michelle:

Yes, and I do feel like that. I feel like it made a huge difference in that in the beginning my mom was very much like her adoptive grandparents and then after she had met her biological mom, she became almost a combination of the two. And it kind of opened up that world for me, that not everyone has to be a certain way or fall into a specific form, but I mean, beauty comes in all shape, sizes, colors, and wild people.

Ron Reigns:

That is cool.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

What is the one memory of her? Because she did come out and you did get to spend time with her as a 10 year old, and an 11 year old, because she came out twice. What is a memory that you have of being with her in person?

Michelle:

A memory that really sticks out for me is there was one day we were both sitting outside together and she was having a conversation with me and I kept thinking in my head, over and over again, she must not how old I am because she was talking to me like I was an adult. She was one of the first adults at the time to actually talk to me like I could understand them as opposed to like I’m a child. And that made a huge difference for me. I was shocked and I was absolutely positive she had no idea the age that I was because of that. And then when we were sitting outside, she was smoking a cigarette and she was telling me about how much she regretted things like smoking and falling down that path and it had become a very raw and real conversation that we both ended up crying together. And it was just very surreal to be able to kind of have that relationship with her, where I felt like I couldn’t with a lot of other adults in my life at the time.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Do you think that the adoption reunification had an overall very positive experience for you?

Michelle:

Yes. I wouldn’t take it back for the world, and I only wish that our adoption reunification it could have happened sooner.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

And we lost her in 2016. And I know that I still struggle with grieving over her loss and I’m sure you still struggle with the grief over her loss.

Michelle:

Yes.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

What do you think that she would to you today so that you could share your experience with other people who maybe have mothers that are going through an adoption reunification and meeting their birth parent for the first time? What do you think she would say to you, using her polite words, to share with them?

Michelle:

Life is bigger and there’s always certain circumstances and that it’s never too late.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Do you think that she would be proud of you with what you have done with your life so far at 24 and where you’re going?

Michelle:

I hope so.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

I think she would. So when I would go and visit her, because I went and visited her many times throughout the 10 years that I had with her, and I would come home and I would show you pictures and tell you stories about what happened. What did you think about that?

Michelle:

I couldn’t believe that you were able to get so close with somebody that you hadn’t grown up with because I always thought it’s your parents, like you grow up with your parents, so you become close with your parents, and I wasn’t close with my biological dad and never got to reforge that connection. And when I saw how easily and how closely you were able to connect, I guess it just surprised me because I had never realized that that was a possibility.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

And did it give you hope?

Michelle:

Yes. It opened my eyes.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay. So it was a positive thing?

Michelle:

Yes, definitely positive.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

And do you think that your relationship with her impacted or changed your relationship with your adoptive parents?

Michelle:

No. I would say our relationships were completely separate and neither impacted the other. I had my own special relationship with her and I had my own relationship with my adoptive grandparents.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

Okay. So I think for everybody listening, the way that we could interpret or look at adoption reunification is really like opening a book. When you start reading a book and you open and you read the first page, you really don’t know what is going to happen throughout your journey and what is going to happen at the end of your story. So look at it like a journey, and appreciate and be present in the moment because you never know how long you’re going to have in that journey. Unfortunately, we only had 10 years in that journey and it was cut, I feel very prematurely short, because she did pass away at such a young age. And so because of that, we only have those 10 years of memories.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:

But if you are embarking on a reunification story or journey and you have that opportunity, take it for what it is, and know that it’s your journey and your story and the way that it winds up going and the events that happen along the way are going to be memories that you’ll have for the rest of your life and cherish every one of them. Not all of them have the same ending, not all of them start off where you think they’re going to start off or end where you think they’re going to end. But again, just being present in that moment will give you insight, and those loved ones around you, insight that hopefully will last a lifetime.

Ron Reigns:

Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters In Adoption. If you’re listening and you’re dealing with an unplanned pregnancy and want more information about adoption and adoption reunification, Building Arizona Families is a local Arizona adoption agency and available 24/7 by phone or text at (623) 695-4112, that’s (623) 695-4112. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get started on creating an Arizona adoption plan, or just get you more information. You can also find out more information about Building Arizona Families on their website at azpregnancyhelp.com.

Ron Reigns:

Thanks also go out to Grapes for allowing us to use their song I Don’t Know as our theme song. Birth Mother Matters In Adoption was written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me. Please rate and review this podcast wherever you’re listening to us. We’d really appreciate it. We also now have a website at birthmothermatterspodcast.com. Tune in next time on Birth Mother Matters In Adoption. For Kelly Rourke-Scarry, I’m Ron Reigns.