Kelly:

Welcome and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.

Kelly is the executive director, president, and co-founder of Building Arizona Families Adoption Agency in Phoenix, Arizona, the Donna K. Evans Foundation, and the You Before Me campaign. She has a bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development and a master’s degree in education with an emphasis in school counseling.

She was adopted when she was three days old. She was born to a teen birth mother, raised in a closed adoption, and reunited with her birth mother in 2007.

Our goal with the Birth Mother Matters in Adoption podcast is to spread awareness and education about the beautiful choice that is adoption.

Adoption has changed drastically over the last hundred years. Looking back at a century of adoption is incredible when we look at how far we’ve come.

I was adopted in the early 70s—not to date myself—but in the early 70s. And what I experienced as an adoptee compared to what adoptees experience now is literally night and day.

So today in this podcast, Ron, we’re going to talk about my experiences versus the experiences that adoptees can have if they are part of the adoption triad now and growing up adopted.

Ron:

Very good. All right.

Kelly:

I think one of the main core differences that I see now versus what it was like when I was growing up—and when I say one of the main, there’s obviously more than one—but I think there are three really big ones. And those are what I want to really focus on today.

The first one is information.

Back in the early 70s, there was an identifying information sheet that is filled out—that is still filled out in every adoption—where, you know, things like the ethnicity of the birth mother and birth father, you know, approximately their height and weight.

That was the type of really general, non-identifying facts. And those are fascinating.

Ron:

But they’re very few.

Kelly:

And so it’s not enough.

Ron:

Yeah.

Kelly:
Yes, exactly. It’s like going to a really, really fancy restaurant and they bring you out an entrée the size of a tater tot. Like, you just get one little nibble and that’s it. Here’s your taste—that’s all you got. You like it? Great.

So, you know, now, because there is everything from 23andMe, Ancestry.com, all of the genetic websites, you can really find generational ancestors. And, you know, back then you didn’t—usually you didn’t have a first name, much less anything else.

That can happen now. If you have a little bit of information and you at least have a name—or maybe not—maybe you literally just do your DNA test and they’re able to link you that way to find your ancestors.

And for the first time—I actually—I’ve had the genetic tests done. I’ve had all of the DNA tests done. I’ve done multiple ones. And I just recently caught the Ancestry.com bug where you go back, yeah, decade or generation after generation, and you see more about your history. And so that’s fascinating.

When I started it, I had one tree because I was thinking, Okay, I’m going to research my biological family, but my adoptive family is really important, too. And I want to understand about them as well. Because when you look, you know, as a person—a child, an adult, a teenager, what have you—oftentimes it is said that what happens to you prior to the age of 10 are significant events that trigger things in your mind. And that’s kind of—you are the result of what happens in that first 10 years.

And so I think when you are trying to learn about yourself, it’s important to learn nature and nurture—you know, where you came from and what people who raised you had experienced. Because again, that’s what shapes them, which ultimately will shape you. Because adoption is really nature and nurture. It’s not or, it’s both.

So I started off with just a combined tree—because you can put in adopted, you can put in all these little references and points and notes—and then it got complicated. So I separated

Kelly:

and I have my adopted tree, biological tree, and then I did a combo tree. So everything takes me three times as long, but it works. It works.

And so I think that this information is so valuable. And to somebody who did grow up adopted without this wealth of knowledge, holding onto three or four facts, you know, until I was in my early thirties—learning about this is just indescribable. Because every time I wanted to, you know, look at making a family tree, I always felt like, I feel like I’m not honoring my biological side if I just do the adopted tree, and vice versa. I wanted to be able to do both, and I couldn’t, so I didn’t do anything at all.

Like you said—the nature and nurture—you want to know the genetics of why you are who you are, but you also want to know the family history of the adoptive family to know, Okay, why are they the way they are? And how was I raised? I’m sure that’s just got to be blowing your mind.

It really is. It’s really—it’s really consuming, and it’s very gratifying. You know, I learn things that, as I’m going through the research, I chuckle to myself because I’m like, That’s why I do that, or, Oh, that’s why that happened, you know what I mean? So it’s like it gives you some sense of understanding.

I know my biological birth mom used to always use the phrase, “You got it honest.” So, you know, if I do something—if there’s a behavior and someone says, “Oh, that’s annoying,” then she would say, “Oh, well, she got it honest,” meaning like it wasn’t her fault; it was genetically passed on to her, right?

So yeah, the wealth of information out there is incredible, and I can’t express how positive that is for adoptees. I think that is single-handedly one of the most amazing things and breakthroughs for adoptees. So that’s the first thing that I think is incredible and helpful. Very helpful.

The second one is one that I’m guessing a lot of people wouldn’t have thought of as a huge shift. Adoption used to be viewed as an event—as a single event in time. You would

Kelly:
Early on—this is in the 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s—as you keep going. However, it’s not. It’s a lifelong experience. And so, because we view it as something you have for the rest of your life…

Like, you’ve talked a lot about issues you’ve had with your eyes. That’s something that you deal with every day in one form or fashion. Same with adoption—it’s the same. It’s always there. Some days, it may be in the very back of the book, the last page, but it’s not something that happened and it’s over. It’s very alive and present.

And again, I was in my early 30s when I found my birth mother. And so that itself has been a process. I think every time you find out more information about your biological family—or even your adopted family—I think that’s a process. Because again, when the two collide, what happens?

Biologically, maybe you have a musical talent that runs genetically through your blood, okay? You are gifted in the art of music. And maybe your adoptive family has instilled:
“When you pick up a hobby, you become very dedicated to that hobby. We don’t quit when we start a softball team—we finish the season out. We don’t no-show when it’s time to go on stage for the play—we follow through.”

So again, both of those sides are going to collide in an amazing way and produce a special person.

I’m fascinated by the whole concept of this because you do—you look at somebody, and you don’t look at them nowadays and say, “Oh, you remember that time you adopted the kid?” No. It’s an ongoing process that they’ve all developed—kind of like we all do with everything in life, I guess.

So, I think that the more we learn about ourselves, I think the more self-confident we will be. Because knowledge breeds power, and everyone likes to feel in control. They don’t want to be a light leaf that is being blown all over the front driveway—they want to be the rock that is solid and they know what’s happening.

The rain isn’t going to move the rock. The sun isn’t going to wither the rock. And the cold isn’t going to damage the rock when it freezes. You know what I mean? It’s like we

Kelly:
We all want to be that solid individual. And I think that is really, really important.

The third point that is very different from then to now regarding adoption is most definitely adoption awareness—overall, in general—and society’s perception of it. I think we have made great strides in teaching the world about adoption. You know, everything from domestic adoption to international adoption.

I think we, in the adoption community, have really worked hard to spread the word about adoption. Because normalizing it is only going to make the world a better place—making it so you’re not the sore thumb that sticks out when you’re an adopted kid in a classroom full of other kids who may or may not be adopted too.

You don’t normally walk into a classroom, raise your hand, and say, “Hi, I’m adopted.” I mean, that’s not something children normally do, because they don’t want to stand out. They don’t want to be different. They want to be like everybody else.

And with the way that adoption has come past all of this—the secrecy, you know, being a secret or something that you really don’t want to bring up and don’t know how to address—that’s all going away. And so, because that’s going away, it’s becoming—and it is—known as another way to build a family.

People have always known—or some people who have had to go outside of the traditional way to have a child have known about adoption in most cases. But I think the people that don’t have to look outside their front door to try to figure out a way to build a family—I think knowledge is reaching, and people are talking, and it’s becoming normal.

We’re seeing it on TV shows and in movies, and the perception is changing. And the language people are using about adoption is changing, and those are positive things.

And the more positive we are about adoption, the easier we are making it for birth mothers, people or children that have been adopted, and birth mothers and birth fathers. Because this is a very special, sacred relationship and trust between this triad.

Kelly:
And when it is viewed and accepted as positive, then everyone feels safe, secure, and loved.

When people start coming in and questioning adoption and using non-positive adoption language, it casts a dark cloud over adoption. And that hurts people in the triad.

When an adoptive family is at the park with their lunches and their kiddos are playing on the playground and maybe they’re meeting all of their friends, they don’t want to walk in and be like, “Hi, I’m the adoptive mom, and this is my adopted child, and we’re going to play at the adopted playground.”

They want to just be mom. They’re not “the adoptive mom.” They’re mom.

And then comes the question, “Well, what about the birth mom?” She’s mom too. Some children have special names for their birth mother. I didn’t—I called them both Mom. So it just depends on what’s comfortable and what everybody is okay with.

So I think that when you sit down and really break this out in your head, back when I was younger, my parents’ friends knew that I was adopted, but it wasn’t like when I was playing over at Jane’s house and my mom called to have me come home for dinner, her mother would say, “Okay, Kelly, your adoptive mom wants you to come home for dinner.” It wasn’t that at all. Right?

And it wouldn’t be that now either, which is great. That’s what we want—it to just be, “Mom says come home.”

Breaking down these barriers—we don’t have to constantly identify, “Oh, this child was adopted,” or, “This is an adopted child.” Forget it. This is a child. This is the child’s mom. That’s it.

Just like with anything else. I mean, when you think of grandparents, some people call them grandfather and grandmother, or grandpa and grandma, Meemaw, Papa—you know, there are different names. And it’s kind of like that with the birth mother and the adoptive mother. Like you said, everybody has different traditions or things.

Kelly:
That doesn’t have to do with adoption—it just has to do with personalities.

We’ve always referred to the United States, or America, as a melting pot. Well, why can’t that apply to adoption as well? I mean, we come from all different areas, different belief systems. We have different values and morals in some aspects. I mean, hopefully, everybody agrees on the major ones—the big guys. But with the little ones, people may have different views and expectations.

And I think it’s important to understand and celebrate the fact that adoption has drastically changed over the course of the last hundred years—both international and domestic. On this podcast, we primarily focus on domestic adoption, obviously, but I think it’s important to note that we are headed in the right direction, and I’m excited to see where we’re going to keep going.

Now, is there anything that you kind of predict for the future when it comes to adoption? The reason I ask is—I think of movies and TV shows. They’ve really started to incorporate adoption stories well. However, the one thing I sort of feel like is missing—you don’t hear a lot about the birth mom in these stories.

You see the adoptive parents and their new baby and all that, but you don’t hear a lot about the birth parents.

I do think that is changing, and I’m hoping it will continue to change. We definitely now understand through research and studies and stories that this affects the birth mother as well. And she is an integral part of this triad.

In my opinion, as we become more open and accepting as a society as a whole, that’s going to include her more and more and more.

And I think, again, as we continue to normalize all of this, we’re actually going to see an increase in adoptions—because the more common things are, the more they happen. Then it just takes on a life of itself.

An example would be VHS versus CDs or DVDs. We had something we used for a long time, and then we found a way

Kelly:
We found a way to make it better. We found a way to make the process of adoption better and long-standing. And we understand that it is a process—it’s not an event—and that’s huge.

We have a pregnancy crisis hotline available 24/7 by phone or text at 623-695-412 or you can reach us on our toll-free number: 1-800-340-9665. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get you to a safe place, provide food and clothing, and help you get started on creating an Arizona adoption plan—or just give you more information.

Check out our blogs on our website at AZPregnancyHelp.com, and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter by looking for AZ Adopt Podcast.

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Ron:
Birth Mother Matters in Adoption was written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me.

Thanks go out to Grapes for letting us use their song, “I Don’t Know”, as our theme song.

Join us next time on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. For Kelly Rourke-Scarry, I’m Ron Raines—and we’ll see you then.

 

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