Ron Reigns:
Welcome. And thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.
Speaker 2:
Do what’s best for your kid and for yourself, because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid, and that’s not fair.
Speaker 3:
And I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.
Speaker 4:
Don’t have an abortion. Give this child a chance.
Speaker 5:
All I could think about was needing to save my son.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m the Executive Director, President, and co-founder of Building Arizona Families Adoption Agency dedicated to providing help for pregnant women facing crisis, the Donna K. Evans Foundation and creator of the You Before Me Campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development and a master’s degree in education with an emphasis in school counseling. I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother, raised in a closed adoption and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.
Ron Reigns:
And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the co-host of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife, who’s an adoption attorney, and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.
Ron Reigns:
Due to the rating of this podcast, we’ll be using very general language. Please note that this episode may contain language, not suitable for children. Since this podcast is about adoption, the precursor is pregnancy and the precursor to pregnancy is a lack of, or ineffective use of birth control. Therefore, we feel that this topic is one that we must address.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Birth control continues to be a topic that many people are uncomfortable talking about. This stems from decades ago, when birth control became more prevalent, there were more options, and it’s important to talk about in relation to adoption because we provide help for pregnant women facing unplanned pregnancies, crisis pregnancies, and pregnancies that may have been planned, but are no longer desired. Women who place a baby for adoption may return to our adoption agency to place a second baby, or even a third. A common question I get asked as a center for help for pregnant women is, “What are you doing as an adoption agency so that women don’t keep coming back?” And we’ve talked about this in previous podcasts, and that’s why we have the Donna K. Evans Foundation.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The other thing that’s unique about Building Arizona Families, is that while proving help for pregnant women at Building Arizona Families we will pay for birth control for a birth mother after she has a baby if her insurance doesn’t cover it. So let’s say she’s interested in getting an IUD. We will actually pay for the IUD if her insurance won’t cover it, just to assist her in making a choice so that she doesn’t have to come back and ask, because she’s gotten pregnant again, or she didn’t have the means to be able to get birth control.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Because women do come back a second time, or even a third time, I get asked the question, “Why? Why are they still getting pregnant? They know what causes it. What’s happening?” And I guess the best answer would be a lack of birth control or birth control that’s not used effectively or correctly. And when I speak with women who come to our agency to place a baby for adoption, we always talk about their pregnancy and how they got pregnant. And we talk about this, whether this is their first baby or their 10th baby, and we do talk about birth control and whether or not they were using it and whether or not, or why it didn’t work, I should say, obviously it didn’t work-
Ron Reigns:
Whether they were using it properly.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. So the most common answers that I get when providing help for pregnant women is I ask them how they became pregnant, the answers are, “I didn’t use birth control. I forgot to get my shot,” and they’re referring to Depo-Provera. “I wasn’t planning on having sex. We don’t like to use condoms. I wanted to have kids. I thought I couldn’t get pregnant. I had my tubes tied. He told me he couldn’t have kids. We have never had to use birth control before. I thought he was going to take care of it.” And the last one is, “I have no idea.” The Guttmacher Institute did a study, and I found a absolutely fascinating because throughout this podcast part one and two, I really want to talk about what’s going on. Why are all of these women and men not using birth control?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
We have more types of contraceptives than we’ve ever had in our history. And it’s more readily available than it’s ever been. And yet, we’re still having so many unplanned pregnancies and we’re having repeat unplanned pregnancies. Even though we are an adoption agency and we’re providing help for pregnant women and working with birth mothers, that doesn’t mean that we want them to keep having to go through placing a baby for adoption and experiencing an unplanned pregnancy. So this Institute found that there are 61 million women of reproductive age, 43 million of them are at risk for unintended pregnancy. That’s astounding-
Ron Reigns:
Unbelievable. The numbers, I went through them before we started recording. And I was just amazed by these numbers.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. They also go on to state that couples who do not use any method of contraception have approximately an 85% chance of experiencing a pregnancy over the course of a year. That’s really high. Whenever I look at percentages, I always think I relate it to the weather, and I don’t know why I do this, but I relate it to the weather. So I think if there’s an 85% chance of rain, I’m going to take an umbrella.
Ron Reigns:
Right. It’s pretty likely.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It’s pretty likely. In the United States, the average desired family is two children. To achieve this family size, a woman must use contraceptives for roughly three decades.
Ron Reigns:
So in other words, to keep from having more than that too, then you’ve got to be consistent and continue to use some kind of birth control.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. Yeah. So what they’re saying is because there is a 15% chance if you don’t use contraceptives, yes. So that statistic is a little confusing. They went on to say, who uses contraceptives. More than 99% of women aged 15 to 44 who have ever had sexual intercourse have used at least one contraceptive method. Some 60% of all women of reproductive age are currently using a contraceptive method. Again, these numbers are terrifying.
Ron Reigns:
Right. Only 60%. Well, I mean, obviously almost 100% of women-
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
They’re not all engaging in sexual relations, but 60% of that age group is using contraceptives. 10% of women at risk of unintended pregnancy, are not currently using any contraceptive method, which means if they become pregnant, they’re going to have to choose to parent, to place for adoption, or unfortunately some of them are going to choose to have an abortion. The proportion of women at risk of unintended pregnancy who are not using a method is highest among those 15 to 19, which is 18% and lowest among those aged 40 to 44, which is 9%. This is interesting because I would say the average age of our birth mothers is low to mid twenties.
Ron Reigns:
But that statistic is kind of what you would expect. The younger, less mature people are going to be twice as likely not to use it just because they’re younger-
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I wouldn’t say less mature, I would say less educated.
Ron Reigns:
Less educated?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. I would say less educated rather than less mature, less educated. If you know better, chances are you’re going to do better. That’s how the theory goes. Contraceptive use is common among women of all religious denominations, so that’s interesting. Among women at risk of unintended pregnancy, 92% of those with an income of less than 300% of the federal poverty level and 89% of those living at zero to 149% of poverty, are currently using a contraceptive method, so that’s encouraging.
Ron Reigns:
It actually is, yes.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That’s one of the reasons at our office, again, this is a little controversial, but again, safety first. So we have a basket of condoms actually in our front office because we want women to be able to take them, even if they are pregnant, to help from transmitting any sexually transmitted diseases. We want to keep them as safe as possible. If they take a handful and they’re giving them to their friends to stay safe and not have an unintended pregnancy, I think that, that’s great
Ron Reigns:
Right. Now you say that’s controversial.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It is.
Ron Reigns:
Why is that controversial?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Because sometimes in our office where we provide help for pregnant women, we have children that are there. And so our receptionist, we’ll just have her take the basket and kind of put it where the children can’t see it. But again, our goal is to make sure that we are keeping as many people safe as possible. And some people to this day are uncomfortable talking about birth control. That’s why I said, it’s still one of those topics that people are not comfortable talking about. Because if you’re talking about birth control, you are referring inadvertently to sex.
Ron Reigns:
To sex. Certainly. But yeah, I think it’s got to be less controversial than it was in say the fifties and sixties, because then you didn’t talk about anything.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Well, I think, it’s gotten better, but I think in some ways, we’ve regressed and that’s what I want to talk about next. So back in the olden days, when I was in school, we had sex education classes where they discussed birth control in extreme detail. We had to watch a video on labor and delivery. We talked in about STPs for days and days. They scared us stupid is what I used to refer to it as, they terrified us, absolutely terrified. I don’t remember ever having the option to not go.
Ron Reigns:
Right. I believe that when I was going to school, it was the same thing, and they separated the boys from the girls. So we got different films and different education, but I believe that the parents could opt you out of it if they protested to you being taught that in school. But as kids, we couldn’t just say, “No, I don’t want to go to that class.”
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. I’m sure that’s the case. I don’t remember that. I remember maybe one or two children would go to a different room and that always caused some of the kids in the class to start laughing, which I don’t know why that would be funny.
Ron Reigns:
Kids are weird like that, yeah.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. And so now, we learned a lot back then. Back then, I feel like we walked away and we knew a lot. Nowadays, and I can say this because I’ve had many children go through middle school, they can opt-out, at least at the public school my kids go to, and parents can go and preview the materials before they’re explained to the kids and they can go through everything. And that’s good on one hand, but not on the other, because if you share and this is all my opinion. If you share general information to a group of students, they’re all going to get the same information and it’s going to be correct information. If you take a third of those kids and remove them, they’re not getting the information. They’re not being given information by a trained professional, and they’re not going to have knowledge of what everybody else does. So I think some kids are at a disadvantage.
Ron Reigns:
I definitely see your point. But I also see the point of a parent saying, “This is my job to teach my children,” as long as they’re actually doing it, who knows-
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
As long as they’re actually doing it.
Ron Reigns:
But yeah, so-
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
You have those parents, that’ll say, “My child is not going to have sex before the end of high school. They don’t need to know this, and I don’t want to put this in their head.” And unfortunately, that’s our goal, but it’s not reality. It’s not. And that doesn’t mean that we, as parents need to be like, “Okay, well, it’s fine if they do.” Well, no, it’s not fine if they do, but in the event that we’re not able to prevent it, let’s give them the mental tools so that they know how to prevent pregnancy, and how to prevent an STD so that they understand what really happens. There are so many myths out there. There are so many things that are incorrect. So I’m really a huge proponent of sex education in the school system, I really am. I think that that is one of the number one keys to eliminating unintended pregnancy.
Ron Reigns:
Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. And like you say, you’re getting actual factual information that’s put into a course basically. And it’s like a curriculum of, “Okay, these are the things that children need to know.” And I see what you’re saying, I really do. And I’m just saying that while I don’t agree with it 100%, I understand the parents saying, “Wait a minute, that’s a bridge too far for some random teacher to be…” And I think they’re looking at it as an opponent, somebody you’re in a fight with. And it’s like, “I don’t think that’s the case. I think teachers are genuinely there to help.” And I don’t know. Yeah, that’s tough.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It is. It’s a very touchy subject and I’m coming at it from, I am still a certified school counselor and I also work, providing help for pregnant women experiencing unintended pregnancies every day. I have a ton of teenagers. And so I feel like I’m trying to keep everybody safe. I’m trying to make sure that we are as equipped educationally as we can possibly be. Yes, 100%, we want our kids to be abstinent until marriage. I believe that, that’s what I want for all of my children. Is it going to be a reality? Probably not. Am I going to still preach that? Yes. But in the event, that one makes a choice that is not the same as I want them to make. I want them to be educated. And I don’t believe that sitting in an education class in school is going to make them want to go and have sex.
Ron Reigns:
I also think something you brought up earlier, I think it should be important on those parents who do object to actually go in, like you said, and talk to the teacher, see the curriculum, see what they’re being taught. And at least then, maybe make that choice. But I think that maybe that’s what should happen is if you want your child to opt-out, then you are required to come in and view these materials and see what they’re missing out on.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And too, for those parents that are not in a field of providing help for pregnant women experiencing unplanned pregnancies, that are not in a medical field, that are not in a school system and you want to be the one to teach your child so that they have the information firsthand from you, make sure that your current, make sure that you understand the latest statistics, make sure you understand the current forms of birth control that are offered. Make sure you understand, because that’s why we’re diving into this is a lot has changed. I was shocked at some of the things that we’re going to go into, that are very different than I was taught when I was in high school. And Ron, you’re older than I am.
Ron Reigns:
Much
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But you’re older. So, it’s different. My undergraduate degree is in family studies and human development. And I took a pretty much famous class at Arizona State University. It was Human Sexuality by Dr. Owen Morgan. This class was known throughout the campus. It was the most popular class to get into. He was an Arizona State University faculty member from 1968 until 1999. They say during this period, nearly 100,000 students passed through his classes. He was popularly known as OM, I remember that class like I took it yesterday. And he went where no man has gone before. He took the topics that you were briefed on in high school, and he ran miles with them. You would learn more in that class, than you could even comprehend. And when you were sitting in that class, there wasn’t a moment that was boring.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
There was videos. And he had such an openness about him that there was nothing you couldn’t ask. He would do surveys that you would think, “Is that really even appropriate for him to be asking us?” But what he would do is he would have you write it on a piece of paper and he would tally him up and you pass a forward, he tallies them up and then he gives out the results and they were astounding.
Ron Reigns:
Really?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Oh yeah. Everything from first aid, how old you were at first intercourse, how many partners you’d had? It was unbelievable. But it gave us a real-time perspective of our fellow classmates-
Ron Reigns:
Without actually putting names to it. Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
No, no, no, not at all. You just write the numbers and then you would pass it forward-
Ron Reigns:
And you would look at it and say, “Oh my gosh, 68% of these kids had sex before this age,” or whatever the question was. Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It was so incredible to experience something like that because it was putting everything in such a real-time perspective. And there was once, the funniest moment for me in that class was they were showing a labor and delivery video, he was. And there was a student that passed out, literally passed out, in a class. And I thought at that time, that, that was kind of funny because that wasn’t what you’d expect from a college kid. Do you know what I mean? But it was funny-
Ron Reigns:
Traumatic for someone, got it.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But we learned so much and I’m so sorry to hear that he has since passed on, but I will never forget this professor. He’s the one that if somebody has gone to Arizona State University and they were in that realm of classes. People from business classes were taking it. It was that intriguing, and yet, he did it in such a masterful way, the way he taught this class, that you were better for taking it. And that sounds weird because it was a human sexuality class. But if you go online and you read, and as I was researching for this podcast yesterday, I was researching him and a little bit more about him and there are articles to this day about him. So I feel very lucky that I was able to be in his class.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And I think that candor and that approachability is what is lacking in society today. I think that we are so closed-mouthed about birth control, about teaching our children what this really is. And because of that, we’re doing a disservice and in that women are experiencing on unplanned pregnancies and crisis pregnancies, and that’s really, really hard.
Ron Reigns:
Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. If you’re listening and you’re dealing with an unplanned pregnancy and want more information about help for pregnant women and adoption, Building Arizona Families is a local Arizona adoption agency available 24/7 by phone or text at 623-695-4112. That’s 623-695-4112. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get started on creating an Arizona adoption plan, or just get you more information. You can also find out more information about Building Arizona Families on their website at azpregnancyhelp.com.
Ron Reigns:
Thanks also go out to Grapes for allowing us to use their song, “I Don’t Know,” as our theme song. Birth Mother Matters and Adoption was written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me. Please rate and review this podcast wherever you’re listening to us. We’d really appreciate it. We also now have
